Friday, June 14, 2013

The Catholic Defender: Contending For The Faith

The following is a debate that took place today on my Facebook page and I thought it was worth sharing.  I remove the last name of Skip purposely to protect his identity.  Skip is the anti-Catholic.

Skip And Don, I love you brother but I am not going to argue a truth on the radio. i am not about such things, I know you are and always have been. When you find that arguing is not the way of God, and that defending a church and setting all your eggs in the Catholic basket instead of with Jesus Christ then we can talk. Until then you are just making noise. Know Christ and make him known.


Donald Hartley Not at all, of the Pope, Jesus said, "And so you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

Donald Hartley
I wouldn't debate on the radio either if I knew I had to be accountable for the accusations I make?

Skip Let us look at that scripture.

Donald Hartley Skip, Dave Hunt? Really? What did you do, just google this? (Skip had posted an anti-Catholic video from Dave Hunt.  A well know anti-Catholic who has been disproved)


Skip shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Skip Seems you are saying God built his church on Satan.

Skip  "for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." And that is the Catholic church

Donald Hartley Skip, the actual verse reads, ""Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah", Jesus says the same thing in Matthew 17:9, what does Jesus say? "Until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."

Donald Hartley St . Peter was thinking as a man would and not God, it was all about going to Jerusalem! Consider Luke 22:31, "Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers". Skip, this is exactly what happens. I consider it very important that if Jesus prays for somebody, that is huge!
about an hour ago ·

Skip  No, I am sorry but that is not what is says. You can take that translation that is not accepted by the christian world, fact is it is not accurate.

Donald Hartley It most certainly does, Skip, you must have a very faulty bible?

Skip You’re Not in the Driver’s Seat

21-22 Then Jesus made it clear to his disciples that it was now necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, submit to an ordeal of suffering at the hands of the religious leaders, be killed, and then on the third day be raised up alive. Peter took him in hand, protesting, “Impossible, Master! That can never be!”

23 But Jesus didn’t swerve. “Peter, get out of my way. Satan, get lost. You have no idea how God works.”
about an hour ago · Like

Skip Waters Jesus Predicts His Death

21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Skip Seems you don't know what you are talking about again

Donald Hartley Jesus said, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me; for you are not on the side of God, but of men." This was all about Jerusalem.

Skip You better go say a few rosaries and get back to me.

Donald Hartley Skip, your making accusations and not reading the responses, I am more than answering your attacks, your not listening but copying and pasting.  Concerning the Rosary, gladly, and I will remember!

Skip  No, it was about Peter. Peter was in error then and many times in the bible. In fact not until Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit when he was babtized in the Holy spriit did he lose his silly thoughts and his trying to draw attention to himself.

Skip These are not attacks, they are facts. You have been taught lies, it is hard for you to face the truth.

Donald Hartley Actually, Jesus said what Jesus said: St . Peter was thinking as a man would and not God, it was all about going to Jerusalem! Consider Luke 22:31, "Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers". Skip, this is exactly what happens. I consider it very important that if Jesus prays for somebody, that is huge!

Skip The truth is the truth no matter if you believe it or not. A lie is a lie no matter if you and a whole lot of other people believe it to be the truth.

Skip Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection

21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. 22 And Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, “God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to you.” 23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance[e] to me; for you are not on the side of God, but of men.”

Donald Hartley What are you trying to say Skip, Catholics certainly recognize that it was Jerusalem that Jesus was going to, and nobody is disputing the Holy Spirit coming upon the Apostles and the Church on Pentecost. Those are not lies nor are we calling them lies. It is absurd that you would say that.

Donald Hartley Skip, your making your own punching bag so you can kick it, but that is not the Catholic Church.

Skip Not a word about Jerusalem, he was talking directly to Peter and Peters lack of knowledge. Of course if ole Peter would of just read the old testement he would of known what was going to happen, that is if he would of been able to see it.

Donald Hartley  Skip, just looking back, you yourself quote scripture saying that it was infact concerning Jerusalem that Peter resisted and Jesus calls Peter "Satan"! Plus your forgetting John 21:15-19, or is this not in your new bible?

Donald Hartley St. Peter did come around to see it, he would be crucified upside down for it.

Skip I thought you said that was the scripture where the catholics say their chruch came from? The "rock" was the fact that Jesus was the Christ. Not SImon.

Skip He also denied Christ three times.

Donald Hartley Matthew 16:18 Jesus changes Simon, Son of Bar-Jona to "Kepa", rock
about an hour ago ·

Donald Hartley Jesus gives the keys to Peter at the Ascension of Jesus, that is the birth of the Papacy.

Donald Hartley Skip, we know that Peter denied Jesus Three times, that is why Jesus asked him three times if he loved Jesus.

Donald Hartley What was Jesus response to Peter? FEED MY SHEEP! What is the responsibility of the sheep? To follow after the voice of the shephard!

Donald Hartley Your attack on Peter does not take Peter out of his foundation Skip.

Donald Hartley 16:17 Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood * has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, * and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
16:19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. * Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

YOU are blessed.
YOU did not receive this knowledge by flesh and blood (your own efforts)
My Father has revealed this to YOU.
YOU are the Rock.
YOU will be given the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
What YOU bind on earth will be bound in heaven.
What YOU loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

Jesus, seven times, emphasized that Peter is the subject that connects the whole discourse together. Not only that but, one by one, ratifies the doctrines that define the Catholic Papacy.

By saying YOU are blessed, He ascribes that Peter's office is set apart with a special blessing. By saying that Peter received knowledge directly from God, not men, He validates the Divine inspiration of the office. By calling Peter the Rock upon which He would build, He declares Peter the earthly cornerstone of the Church. By giving Him the keys, He declared that God's plan of salvation must necessarily pass through His Catholic Church. Finally, by giving Peter the power to bind and loose on HIS behalf, Jesus declares the infallible teaching authority of the Church.

How anyone could read Matthew 16 and deny the authority of the Catholic Church is impossible for me to imagine.

For the first 1500 years of the Church, no one disputed that Peter was the Rock.

Caroline  @Skip - How much do you get paid to preach lies at your " church " , PREACHER ???

Caroline I can see you are your own PREACHER ???

Skip  I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Donald Hartley Quoting St Paul gets you no where here Skip, in fact what does St. Paul do after his conversion? He is lead into Damascus blind until a Catholic Priest finds him (Ananias) and is baptized. The scales fell from his eyes just like I hope they will yours some day!
35 minutes ago · Like · 1

Donald Hartley St. Paul then defends his right as an apostle, he does not go and find his own denomination, but he joins in the Catholic Church. He played significantly at the Council of Jerusalem in 49 A.D.
33 minutes ago · Like

Margie  Here is the list of Popes all the way back to Peter, the first Pope, unbroken line of succession , this link is from Britannica....its History, the First 32 Popes were brutally martyred for the faith.....are you sure they are frauds Skip? You better think again.

Margie  http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/441722/papacy/275551/List-of-popes-and-antipopes
papacy (Roman Catholicism) : List of popes and antipopes
www.britannica.com
The office and jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome, the pope (Latin: papa, from G...See More

Donald Hartley St. Clement was thrown into the sea with an anchor tied around his neck. The Holy Spirit was with St. Clement. He actually wrote two letters to the Corinthians...

Margie  So Skip, please show me where your Pope, Dave Hunt falls in this Apostolic line

Margie  Yes, Donald, he was the fourth Pope, Sts. Cyril and Methodius recovered his body from the sea. I was at the 3rd Century Basilica where his remains are.

Donald Hartley I asked Skip to provide anyone in his church a representative anywhere, he could not do it.

Donald Hartley Skip, we do not separate Jesus Christ from his Church! Debating the truth, defending the truth is what we are instructed to do when it is necessary to do so! St. Jude said, "I now feel a need to write to encourage you to contend for the faith that was once for all handed down to the holy ones." Skip, the faith that was handed on through the holy ones is the Catholic Church. It can't be any more clear than this.

Catholics on Facebook have been having Anti-Catholics like John J Farina and Skip running around trying to get Catholics to abandon the Catholic Faith.  What happens when you respond with the truth.  They have no place to run.  It is important that we do "contend for the faith" when we are challenged.  This was a small taste but it provides an opportunity.

My encouragement is to remain faithful to the Catholic Church because it is the one true Church that Jesus personally founded.  Notice how silent Skip became in this debate? Revelation 8:3-6 states, "Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with burning coals from the altar, and hurled it down to the earth. There were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake"! Just as Isaiah was cleansed with an ember (Isaiah 6:5-7) so is the Catholic Church through the prayer of the Saints. This video I dedicate for Skip and John J Farina!






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